048 Water-Related Accidents and Injuries

VERONICA: Hello, hello, hello, friends. Welcome to Lawyers in the House with Montlick. I’m Veronica Waters, so happy to welcome you into the House today with us. Thanks for being here on WSB. When the new year hits, so many of us are already thinking about the summertime and getting our beach bodies ready, right?

MICHAEL: Criminal justice.

VERONICA: Criminal justice. Did you always know that you wanted to be a lawyer?

MICHAEL: I did because my grandfather practiced law. He went to the Citadel, and then after the war went to law school at the University of South Carolina and he practiced law in Charleston for about 60 years.

MICHAEL: He was unbelievable and that’s how, you know, I would just see how he would help people. And that’s what I wanted to do.

VERONICA: Michael’s reputation among his clients is someone who not only fights hard for them but has a lot of compassion and care on his way to winning their cases. And he’s among the 1% of attorneys who are members of the $1 million advocates forum, which is a prestigious group that’s… where membership is only extended to folks who have won $1 million settlements on a routine basis.

MICHAEL: Well, and…

VERONICA: …Clubhouse, I don’t know what that is.

MICHAEL: Unfortunately, to get that type of money, they’re serious cases. And for instance, what we’re talking about today with swimming and drowning and things like that. Those are the, sadly, the types of cases that would get results like that if someone else was negligent in causing the death or serious injury or something.

MICHAEL: Of course, it’s sad.

VERONICA: Evidence that Michael Rubin’s priority always remains the health and safety and the care and the well-being of his clients.

MICHAEL: Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

VERONICA: You talked about something that is so real. And maybe not talked about enough. And that is how terrible a personal injury case actually has to be before we see how these dollar signs rack up; and drowning is one of those things that is very final.

MICHAEL: Oh, it would certainly be a scary way to be injured or, sadly, to pass.

VERONICA: Terrifying.

MICHAEL: But yeah, and even scarier thing is that it can happen in inches of water.

MICHAEL: And you know-

VERONICA: …into a body of water they’d never… they’ve never been in. One of the things I do know when, like, on vacation is that you’re not supposed to jump head first into a body of water when you don’t know what the bottom is. Bottoms can be very tricky. And you don’t want to just… it’s safer if you’re going to jump in, to jump in feet first, right? You could get a traumatic brain injury that way. And you could get a TBI from other accidents, too. Your boat could capsize. You could fall overboard.

MICHAEL: Oh, yeah. I mean, even as a child, when I would go boating, the first… usually what you do is you get in the car, you drive… either you’re trailing the boat or the boat’s there. And you stop at the bait and tackle store or the local gas station, and you go in there and you buy a Styrofoam cooler, you fill it up with ice, you fill it up with beer, and then you get some bait.

VERONICA: It’s not like driving, which a lot of us do every day.

MICHAEL: Right. And you’re comfortable in your car. A lot of people get in their car and it’s like, okay, if it’s the seat’s off a little bit, they’ll know. So, a boat, you’re not even sitting. You’re usually standing and looking around or you’ve got the wind blowing and people… and it is loud. I mean, you’re not going to hear anything. So, you may hear a horn from another boat, but you’re not going to hear someone screaming in the water.

VERONICA: That’s scary.

MICHAEL: From another boat. You wouldn’t hear them if your engine is going. There’s just no way. You’d have to see them.

VERONICA: And talk about like the freedom… like, another thing that’s different from being on the road is that the road has these very defined lanes that you’re supposed to stick at. I mean, I have never been at the helm of a boat. Not really. But unless you count that one time, I took a picture. That was on vacation.

MICHAEL: You never been on a duck boat?

VERONICA: I said at the helm of a boat.

MICHAEL: You know, lanes become the wake- the waves in some way, because you want to avoid a choppy ride. You don’t want your passengers or yourself bouncing up and down continuously.

MICHAEL: Yeah, it’s just back and forth wherever you want to go.

VERONICA: You got to know how to read a compass, I would think.

MICHAEL: Well, I mean, or at least have a digital one now at this point.

VERONICA: But I think… so you’re doing all this and what about… you don’t know what’s under that football field of water either. There could be obstacles, trees, especially if you’re on a lake or something. I mean, once again, we’re talking about what’s on the bottom. What’s coming your way? And then what about all the navigating through the water with the people… somebody’s pulling somebody on a tube?

MICHAEL: Wild, wild water. Yeah, it really… it is in some ways. It is policed. I mean, there are, you know, if you’re on a waterway with the coast guard, they could be there or Lake Lanier. They’ll have boats out there that I think it’s the Department of Natural Resources. We’ll have officers patrolling, but it’s a, I mean, a needle in a haystack. You’re really going and trying to find someone doing something wrong.

VERONICA: There’s a flag, right?

MICHAEL: Or a bigger boat that you’re kind of aware, they’re stopped, but it is the wild west.

VERONICA: That is crazy. Let’s talk a little bit about, coming up on Lawyers in the House, your position, Michael Rubin, as the father to younger folks who want to be out on the water.

You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick.

VERONICA: Welcome back to Lawyers in the House with Montlick. Veronica Waters here with Michael “Never give up” Rubin, talking about swimming and boating safety. And Michael mentioned earlier about how we don’t want to get ourselves in trouble on the water. Sometimes the trouble that we face, Michael, can be caused by somebody else and sometimes we could be the ones negligent. So, let’s talk about the rules and the laws.

MICHAEL: Sure. I mean, that’s the simplest thing that could save your life. And if you’re 13 or under – a child – you have to have a life vest on. There’s just… I mean, it’s the law, but it’s also common sense.

MICHAEL: Outside. If there’s a cabin, bigger boat with a cabin, like, with a closed door, and you’re inside air conditioning, all that. It says you could take it off. Now that varies state to state, but it says you can take off the vest. Although I think it depends on the person.

VERONICA: Yeah, ’cause you said if anybody’s on your boat or whatever, you got a kid under 13, you’re always going to have a life jacket on.

MICHAEL: Even adults, I would… I mean, you can’t force someone, but certainly I would want to make everyone have a life jacket on just because you never know what’s going happen.

MICHAEL: It’s such an easy way… An easy way to keep yourself safe. Safer.

VERONICA: To keep yourself safer. All right, let’s talk about jet skis and water scooters and that kind of thing. What are the laws around that?

MICHAEL: Sure. Well, if you are 12 to 15 years old in the state of Georgia, you can take a course and you can drive a personal watercraft such as a jet ski without a problem.

VERONICA: And then the state of Georgia will put a little tiny anchor on either your state ID or your driver’s license letting the DNR, or whoever’s out there policing the waterways, know that you have passed that course.

MICHAEL: Very important. Very important.

VERONICA: Georgia also passed a new watercraft law in 2023.

MICHAEL: They did. And it creates a bigger buffer for people in the wake zone. So, it’s a safety. It creates an area where a boat can’t create wake, which is waves, so that people are safer when they’re doing jet skiing, skiing, anything like that.

You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick. Join us 8 a.m. every Sunday on 95.5 WSB.

MICHAEL: Yeah, it’s awful.

VERONICA: You have to keep your eyes on people out there.

MICHAEL: Oh, yeah. I mean, water is… I mean, we’re not fish or reptiles… we’re, you know, mammals and we cannot breathe water.

VERONICA: Yeah, that can be all she wrote. Such a tragedy. Let’s talk a little bit about swimming safety. Of course, we can swim on the lake, but a lot of times we are in the pool in somebody’s backyard or at the park.

MICHAEL: Well, I mean, a pool is obviously… we would call in the business an attractive nuisance. You see a pool? You want to swim. Yeah. Kids see a pool. They want to swim. Yeah. So, there’s a lot of safety that goes in as a pool.

MICHAEL: There are. And while the laws, there are general laws… they can vary in ordinances from city to city, but you have to have a fence.

VERONICA: That’s good because you could be leaning against a gate. It opens.

MICHAEL: Yeah, well, if it’s a lake you can’t…

VERONICA: You can’t fence that off, can you? Can you fence that off?

MICHAEL: Well, no, because it’s not your lake, probably. If you own the lake, you could, but I doubt there’s any specific law that would tell you you have to because the lake is a natural occurring of body of water.

VERONICA: Accidents can happen. I recently had a story earlier this year about a law enforcement officer who actually drowned in his backyard, cutting the grass. Yeah. Lawn mower overturned. He was trapped.

MICHAEL: Yeah. And I’m glad you brought that up because it’s not just children that we have to be concerned about.

VERONICA: A lot more water.

MICHAEL: Oh, yeah. A lot more. More danger, potentially. A lot of fun, but potentially danger as well. So, you have to just recognize that and be aware of it.

MICHAEL: Yeah. I mean, when I saw that, it floored me. I mean, I cannot believe that avoidable… some of them may not be, but you’ve got to imagine drowning most of the time can be avoided. And somehow, it’s happening. Obviously, we don’t know how all these happen, but they’re happening.

MICHAEL: Oh, yeah. I mean, like I said, it’s an attractive nuisance. I mean, everyone wants to swim. You see a pool, and everyone gravitates to it. Community pool, neighborhood pool, indoor pool, it doesn’t matter.

MICHAEL: Well, it’s not necessarily special, but you need to tell your insurer -homeowners – that you do have a pool because obviously they’ll rate you a little different. The risk changes in terms of what could happen to people on your property.

VERONICA: So, Michael, let’s talk a little bit about the causes of drowning, if you will.

MICHAEL: Well, a life jacket. I mean, that’s the simplest thing you can do. Now, you’re not wearing a life jacket in a pool most of the time, but the kids where… if your child doesn’t know how to swim… when I was a kid, it was the floaty arm things. Yeah, it’s like a vest and like a string attached to the sky. I don’t know. But there’s a lot of safe things that you can do for your child.

VERONICA: So, lack of life jacket?

MICHAEL: Flotation device.

MICHAEL: Safety flotation devices. And even have them around your pool. So, a ring or a b- something you can throw in the pool. That, you know, before you jump in, so maybe they can grab it.

VERONICA: And that’s a good… you know what? You brought something else up, because when I was researching boating and swimming safety, one of the things that I read is that… is this phrase called, “throw, don’t go.” If somebody goes overboard or you’re trying to save somebody, I think only the strongest swimmers really could do that. And you know if there’s no lifeguard around or the lifeguard is, you know, maybe there’s no… do they have lifeguards on the pool?

MICHAEL: Yeah, maybe certain private…

VERONICA: Maybe on the shores, but you know when you’re out there, when you’re hundreds of yards out, right? So, “throw, don’t go.” Make sure you have something on your boat that you can throw out, so somebody can reach for it and you can kind of pull them in instead of diving in. How many stories have we seen where somebody, unfortunately, lost their lives because they were rescuing somebody else?

MICHAEL: Ultimate sacrifice.

VERONICA: Yeah, and the person’s panicking and thrashing around, they’re grabbing at you, you know, I mean, it’s a tragedy.

MICHAEL: So, having a flotation device at any body of water around is important, especially on a boat, let’s say, you definitely want to have a ring and some stuff.

MICHAEL: Oh yeah. Well, I mean, if… we talked about that a little earlier, I mean, you stop and before you go boating and you drink. And if you’re in someone’s yard or you’re in your community pool… I mean, shoot, my neighborhood, the community pool, they get kegs once in a while. If you’re not encouraging people to consume alcohol, I would imagine that’s pretty much what that is. So, you have this environment where people like to have fun and part of having fun.

MICHAEL: is…

VERONICA: involves cocktails.

MICHAEL: That’s right. And it doesn’t mean they’re drunk. I mean, they’re just… like a drink or two. But a drink or two, maybe you’re off a little bit. And maybe that off a little bit, you can cause a problem. A serious problem.

VERONICA: Yeah. It’s… your reaction time slows. Your attention is distracted.

MICHAEL: Takes a second.

VERONICA: Just a second. Third highest cause of drowning.

MICHAEL: Not knowing how to swim.

MICHAEL: Oh yeah.

MICHAEL: They may not even have a sign out saying that the rip tides are bad because they don’t know yet.

VERONICA: They don’t know yet. Yeah, a lot of times the first time you know… the first hint you get is somebody’s being pulled out. So, you have to swim parallel to shore until you’re out of the riptide before you try it.

MICHAEL: How many of us have ever been to the beach, gone out in the water by our parents or a friend, and all of a sudden you look up and you’re a hundred yards or whatever down from them? You don’t even realize it. You’re moving with the water.

MICHAEL: There’s no perspective.

VERONICA: Yeah. And fourth?

MICHAEL: The fourth would be hypothermia. The water’s cold.

VERONICA: The water’s cold in that lake.

MICHAEL: We’re 98°.

VERONICA: It’s not heated like your backyard pool.

MICHAEL: Right, we’re… our body temperatures are supposed to be 98°, around there. I mean, some people fluctuate… but if it’s… the water is 60°, that’s considerably lower.

VERONICA: Think about how fast it’s going to suck the heat from your body when you are floating out there. Michael Rubin, talking about water safety. Coming up: the Montlick Closing Argument. Stay with us.

You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick. If you want to listen to our radio show live, you can hear it every Sunday, 8 a.m. on 95.5 WSB.

VERONICA: What do you do in a case like that to make a family whole again? And to keep them from raking themselves over the coals, because they had to be wracked with guilt.

VERONICA: But you’ve got to have stuff in place, right, when you get a pool?

VERONICA: Yeah. What do you want people to know as we leave them today? They’ve got to not only have these protections in place in their backyards, but I think you want people to know… to know their limitations. Know if you’re a strong swimmer or not, right?

MICHAEL: Yeah, know who you are. I mean, water is, like we’ve said… I mean, a theory is that this is… this is one of the more severe types of injuries you can get, a drowning, a lungs, things like that.

VERONICA: Even if you survive, it could change your life. And even a strong swimmer can drown.

MICHAEL: Oh, yeah. I mean, that’s… being overconfident, probably is another, maybe that’s a leading cause too, I would think.

VERONICA: Know your limits and know the laws. We’re talking about water and boating safety. Thank you so much, Michael Rubin from Montlick being here with us in the house. We’ll see you next time. I’m Veronica Waters.