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039 Medical Debt, Hospital Liens and More

039 Medical Debt, Hospital Liens and More

Lawyers in the House with Montlick

Attorneys in Podcast: Lynn S. Walker, Esq.| Richard Warner, Esq.

When you think of a lien, you probably think of it being attached to an asset like a house or car. Well, when it comes to personal injury claims, hospital liens work a little differently.

Montlick attorneys Lynn Walker and Richard Warner are in the house to take a really complex system and process (medical debt) and break it down for you, answer your questions, and help you understand what in the world is going on with your medical bills after an injury from an accident.

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The purpose of this show is to provide general information about the law. Our guests will not provide any individualized legal advice. If you have a personal situation and need legal advice, contact us for your free legal consultation with a Montlick attorney.

Topics Discussed on the Podcast

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00:05	ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Lawyers in the House. With Montlick. Wish you had a lawyer in the family? Now you do. Here’s your host. Veronica Waters. VERONICA: Hey, hey, welcome to Lawyers in the House with Montlick here on WSB. I’m your host, Veronica Waters.
00:25	VERONICA: Here for another fantastic show with you as we peel back the curtain on all things legal and how the law helps you in your everyday lives, but especially when you’ve been hurt through no fault of your own. Personal injury is what we talk about here every single week. And you know what? What we’re talking about today is kind of right in the name injury. Personal injury is all about being injured. And when you’re injured, that means hospital visits, emergency rooms, medical treatments, follow up appointments with doctors, and at the end of the day, all of that treatment is going to add up.
00:59	VERONICA: Those costs are going to continue to mount in the bill will come due. When it does… how much is it going to be? And who’s stroking the check to pay it? That’s what we’re talking about today hospital liens. Are you the one who’s responsible for those massive medical bills? This is what we’re talking about today on Lawyers in the House with Montlick and I can’t think of two better attorneys to have with me in the house today to talk about hospital liens because we’ve got a money guy and a medical lady.
01:30	VERONICA: Let’s start off with our medical lady, Lynn Walker, who has been practicing law since… LYNN: 2015. 2009 at Montlick. VERONICA: 2009 at Montlick. And you came to Montlick from the medical field, Lynn. LYNN: Yes, I was a nurse for 25 years, practiced nursing in the hospital. Yeah. And then I went to law school while I was still in nursing at night and got my law degree and then switched over to law.
02:01	VERONICA: Incredible. Your degrees came from University of Maryland, and then a couple more from Georgia state. LYNN: Correct. VERONICA: Yes. And you, as an as an attorney who used to be a nurse, have got to have, I would think a font of knowledge about how these fields come together. LYNN: Yes, yes. I love the knowledge that I have about injury and medical treatment and what’s going on, you know, with you. It makes it very, very easy if you have to depose a doctor or any experts, you know
02:31	LYNN: I don’t have to learn the medical. I have that. VERONICA: Is there a way that your experience, though, sort of or maybe who you are as a person guides both who you were as a nurse and who you are as an attorney? LYNN: Well, for… yes, for my particular way I practice law, I do it a lot like nursing.
02:57	LYNN: I try to think of the person that I’m helping as if it was me or my loved one. And that’s how I handled being a nurse, and that’s how I handle being an attorney with my clients. I try very hard to understand the emotions of… they’re going through a lot and they don’t understand. And they feel it’s not fair what’s happening, and a lot of times it’s not. But, you know, to try to help them through all of that. So that’s the way I approach it.
03:27	LYNN: Everybody has their own personalities and approaches everything differently, but that’s the background I bring, you know, kind of, I guess, the caretaker. VERONICA: Let’s talk about the background of the attorney sitting next to you, Richard Warner, who was born in the United Kingdom. Yeah, those many years ago. RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: And but then moved to the United States. How old were you when you guys got there? RICHARD: Three months. VERONICA: You were three months old. RICHARD: My mom’s an American citizen. I just happened to be born over there as my father was studying in England.
03:56	VERONICA: Okay, he was studying in England, so you don’t have you never had a British accent. RICHARD: No. VERONICA: Did you cry with the British accent? LYNN: He still does. VERONICA: The accent that I hear when I talk to you, Richard, is clearly New York. RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: New York City. Richard comes to Montlick by way of City University of New York. And Benjamin Cardozo school of law. RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: And before coming to Montlick, or becoming an attorney at all, just like Lynn, he had another career.
04:25	RICHARD: Yes, I’ve spent ten years working as a certified public accountant for CPA firms in New York City. VERONICA: Tell me how you started there but got here. RICHARD: Well, it goes back to high school. I was in the pre law program in high school and the main teacher advised both my mother and I during a parent teacher night for me to major in something other than pre law in undergrad, so that I would have some real-life experiences to bring to the bar.
04:54	RICHARD: And I think that’s served me well. And living in New York City – it’s the business capital of the world. So I got into a business, became an accounting major, and passed the CPA exam and worked as a CPA for years. I thought maybe I’d found my niche, but life has a way of catching up to you. And I realized it was I did have to fulfill my original calling. VERONICA: Really? It felt like it was calling to you? RICHARD: Yes, sure. Well, I ended up being called to serve on the jury and they put me as the jury foreman.
05:24	RICHARD: So it was a really intense experience. And after that is when I enrolled in law school within that year. VERONICA: Was it a civil case or a criminal case? RICHARD: It actually was a criminal case. VERONICA: Okay. But your love and sort of dream of being a lawyer was reignited in that instance? RICHARD: Absolutely. VERONICA: Yeah. And so now, do you feel like you’re doing the right thing? RICHARD: Absolutely. Every day. We hope you injured people who are hurt through the no fault of their own and we’re here to balance the scales of justice.
05:51	VERONICA: I love it. Balancing the scales of justice with Richard Warner and Lynn walker, Montlick injury attorneys as we talk here today about hospital liens. Thanks for being in the house with me. RICHARD: Oh, thanks for inviting me back. LYNN: Thanks for having us. VERONICA: You know, I love to have you guys in here. So I said, we’re talking about medicine and money, right? That’s what it boils down to, right? RICHARD AND LYNN: Yes. VERONICA: All right, first things first. What are hospital leans? RICHARD: Well, a lean is a claim against assets. So an eye contact, the hospital bill is a claim against your projected settlement.
06:22	VERONICA: All right, how does that come to me? Do I get a letter in the mail? Do I get an email? Do I get a collections letter? And how quickly do I see it? RICHARD: Well, the law requires a hospital to file a lien within 75 days after discharge from the hospital. But before they file the lien, they have to first send you a notice 15 days in advance, giving you a heads up, hey, we’re going to send… we’re going to file a lien against your case. Now, that’s an important distinction.
06:50	RICHARD: The lien is not against you personally. It’s against technically the case. VERONICA: Okay, so that is I think that’s probably a really good point. Thank you for pointing that out because when I think of liens, I think it’s attached to something like my house. My car or something. Some actual piece of property or something that I have. LYNN: It’s not attached to your house or your car or any of your assets, your personal assets. It’s attached to the funds you’re going to receive from the case from the at fault party.
07:19	LYNN: However, you can’t relax and say, well, who cares then? Because you still owe your medical bills and you will have to pay them. You can’t ignore the lien. And if you don’t pay them, they can get a judgment against you. And start garnishing your wages or do whatever they need to do to collect their money. VERONICA: Wow, wage garnishment. LYNN: Yeah. They can sue you for it. Yeah. If you don’t pay it, yeah. If it’s not paid. But if a lien is filed and you have an attorney, this is one reason you need an attorney?
07:50	RICHARD: Absolutely. LYNN: We have to take care of it. And we will take care of it. And we can try to negotiate it down and… there’s a lot to it, but that’s why you really need an attorney. VERONICA: It sounds like there is a lot to unpack. So let’s start off again maybe on a too basic level for you experienced attorneys, but for a newbie like me. Is there can I say there’s a difference between medical debt and medical liens? RICHARD: Well, technically, yes, because the lien is only good for a certain amount of time to be enforceable.
08:23	RICHARD: But the debt is going to remain. If you’re able to work around paying the bill is to load. VERONICA: And the lien is only applicable to a settlement, a personal injury case? RICHARD: Technically speaking, yes. VERONICA: Oh, okay. Okay. RICHARD: Now, the issue becomes with credit reporting agencies. They don’t make that distinction you know. They see a lien and clients have told me that they have seen it on their credit report. I don’t ask to see clients, credit reports. I take their word for it.
08:53	RICHARD: But that’s what I’ve been told that it can pop up and I don’t think it should since it’s not a lien against you. It’s against the case. But again, that’s a distinction that these companies don’t always appreciate. VERONICA: I see. So the way that I’m understanding it, the hospital lien comes because someone knows I’m… I’ve got an accident that’s under, right? RICHARD: Unfortunately, when you go into the hospital these days, the first thing they ask you is a result of an accident. LYNN: Yes.
09:21	RICHARD: Yeah. That’s happening to me taking children for medical treatment. This is a result of an accident. No, it’s not you know. They fell down and they hurt their knee. There’s no car accident or slip and fall, either commercial establishment involved. But they want to know that right up front. LYNN: And the second thing they’ll tell you once you say, yes, it’s a car accident or they know because you’re being brought in from a car accident and an ambulance is, oh, don’t worry about it. We’re going to bill the at fault insurance company. That’s not true. That doesn’t happen.
09:51	LYNN: If you’ve got health insurance, give them your health insurance cards and say, bill my health insurance. And a lot of people don’t understand that because they’re thinking, it’s not my fault. Oh, that makes sense. Of course you should bill the at fault party. Great. And they think that you know that’s off their plate to worry about. They’re hurting. They have enough to worry about, you know. They’re not thinking maybe even straight. Maybe they hit their head, you know? But like always, always give them your health insurance and tell them to bill your health insurance.
10:21	VERONICA: I want to talk a little bit more about health insurance coming up. But I need to know sort of why it’s important to the hospital that they do the hospital lien in the first place. Because I think that most of us think, as you said, insurance is what’s going to be billed here. But what’s the advantage to the hospital? RICHARD: Well, it’s a big advantage to the hospital because typically they have negotiated rates with health insurance providers. So the health insurance providers pay less than the bill, whereas the hospitals want to bill the injured patients at 100%.
10:54	VERONICA: So, oh my God, that’s huge. RICHARD: It’s huge. And yes, it’s a big difference. So when someone is injured in the car wreck, the responsible party has a legal obligation to pay their bills. However, the law allows the responsible party and their insurance company to wait until the end of the case before they make payment. So during this time, your bill is outstanding. So if you have health insurance is to your absolute benefit to use your health insurance.
11:20	RICHARD: Whether health insurance pays or not, we still go after the fault party to pay your bills. VERONICA: All right, does the hospital then have to take the rates of the insurance company, right? If I say, they can’t override that. It’s my choice. Is that what you’re saying? RICHARD: That’s our argument. LYNN: Yeah. RICHARD: They sometimes… LYNN: They will counter argue that. VERONICA: Really? LYNN: Well, certain things. I’ll say Medicare, Medicaid, payer of last resort.
11:49	LYNN: So we don’t have to bill… Tricare, things like that. Or, you know… RICHARD: Or med pay, they’ll say med pay is primary, so we have to make sure you either have no pay or it’s exhausted before we bill your health insurance. VERONICA: Is the hospital lien then being filed their way of sort of being first in line for payment? RICHARD: Yes. LYNN: Yes, because even if they do bill your health insurance, if you have a balance, if they filed a lien, you owe the balance of that lien. Yeah. So you always are going to probably have something.
12:18	LYNN: But the reason we tell people give them your health insurance, you’ll end up with more money in your pocket in the end because if they do bill and they take the capitated rate, you might have your copay to pay. And that will come out of your settlement if they’ve liened the case. You’ll have to pay that. Compared to having to pay all of it, you know, at which… comes out of your settlement money. VERONICA: That’s huge. Okay, I want to recap that.
12:43	VERONICA: So the hospital lien, if I don’t, if I can’t get around it myself or if I don’t have a smart attorney like Lynn or Richard, sort of helping me with this. What you’re saying is, I’m going to be responsible for 100% of whatever the hospital charges me for every single procedure and test and diagnostic piece of equipment, 100% of that rate. And it’s coming out of my settlement at the end. RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: Wow. So that really does affect the bottom line when it comes to a personal injury case. That is capable of sucking up your entire settlement. LYNN: That’s correct. And you could still owe if there’s money that’s still owed.
13:14	LYNN: You still owe your money. You owe the bills. The medical bills are yours, regardless of who caused your injury. VERONICA: Incredible, coming up, how soon do you have to start paying on these hospital liens? Lawyers in the House has more to come. You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick. Join us 8 a.m. every Sunday if you want to listen live on 95.5 WSB.
13:45	VERONICA: Welcome back to Lawyers in the House with Montlick on WSB. I’m your host, Veronica Waters here with Montlick injury attorneys Lynn walker and Richard Warner. You guys, if we were in school right now, you’d be sitting right next to me. We’d all be right next to each other, right? Waters, Walker and Warner. How about that? Yeah, we’d all be in a row. Alphabetized. We’re talking about hospital liens today. You’ve been hurt in an accident. Maybe you’ve racked up three or four hundred thousand dollars or more in medical bills.
14:13	VERONICA: Richard and Lynn have told us that your house is safe from a hospital lien and your credit score is too, right? RICHARD: Yes. Well, we represent injured people throughout the United States and laws do vary by state. So for the purposes of our discussion here and your references to particular laws are Georgia laws. So that is in fact the case in Georgia. The lien does not attach to your property or to you personally. It only attaches to your injury case.
14:43	VERONICA: Okay, so it sounds like the liens start coming in pretty quickly after an accident. Does that mean I have to start paying on it right away? RICHARD: Well, not necessarily. The first thing you should do is call an attorney because if you start making payment plans, you’re paying at 100%. Whereas if we get involved, we can negotiate those bills down. And then the reductions that we get, go to you, dollar for dollar. So you only pay the net reducted price. And then you can start making the payment plan if you so choose.
15:14	VERONICA: So can I negotiate that on my own? RICHARD: You can, but you won’t have the leverage to an attorney would. LYNN: So even if you’re able to negotiate a self-pay, discount, you have to have the funds to be able to pay. They usually want the money that day. And it can be very expensive. Also, sometimes people can negotiate a payment plan with the hospital if they haven’t filed a lien yet where they’re paying just a little bit, but you do have to pay it you know and do the payment plan.
15:43	LYNN: It usually will stop them. They’ll forbear from filing it on a credit report or filing a lien usually. But… VERONICA: Maybe no guarantees? LYNN: No guarantees. VERONICA: And I’m also thinking, first of all, I’m a pretty tough cookie sometimes. I wouldn’t really know where to start in negotiating with the hospital. I don’t know what to do. And the other thing is, I’m probably so overwhelmed. And maybe if I’m hurt badly enough, I don’t even have enough income. Think about how many folks are check to check these days.
16:12	LYNN: Most people don’t have enough income to do what we’re talking about, and not only that, but they aren’t over. The shock yet of why do I have to pay for this? I didn’t hurt myself. Somebody else hurt me. VERONICA: And we’re going to talk about that coming up next on Lawyers in the House. What part does your health insurance play when it comes to hospital needs? Stay with us. You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick. Join us 8 a.m. every Sunday on 95.5 WSP.
16:44	VERONICA: Welcome back to Lawyers in the House with Montlick on 95 5 WSB I’m your host Veronica Waters here with Montlick injury attorneys Richard Warner and Lynn Walker. We got the W crew in the house today, the www. It’s a win win win situation for you if you’re joining us today. And we’re so glad to have you leaning in with us on this show on hospital liens. Had some enthralling information in the first half of the show.
17:08	VERONICA: So if you missed any of it don’t worry, we got you. You can subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform and every time our new episode drops, you’re gonna get a notification. You can click and listen anytime of day. You can also find us on social between shows @Montlicklaw on every platform. And remember you can do one stop shopping on LawyersintheHouse.com. You can listen to us. You can watch us and see our smiling faces and added bonus. You can send us a question right there on the website anytime of the day or night.
17:40	VERONICA: We are ready for you. [email protected], write that email address down. Back with Lynn Walker and Richard Warner talking hospital liens, hospital lean on me when I’m not strong. LYNN: Yeah, exactly. It’s a pretty heavy lien. VERONICA: It sounds like it’s really heavy. And I want to talk about the role that health insurance plays because we kind of touched on it a little bit in the first part…
18:09	VERONICA: Richard, you mentioned the difference between the negotiated versus the 100% rates, but I’ve just sort of always thought if I had health insurance, it would make any kind of hospitalization. And I know from experience – I once spent a week in the hospital, the bills just kept on coming. But I was like, thank God. I have insurance through my job. RICHARD: Yes. Well, you can have health insurance through your employer. You could also nowadays purchase health insurance on the marketplace, otherwise known as Obamacare.
18:40	RICHARD: And you could also have government issued health insurance Medicaid and Medicare. VERONICA: So how does that play into it? If I’ve got health insurance, do I still need to worry about these liens? RICHARD: Well, absolutely. The hospitals try to avoid billing health insurance whenever they can. And that’s why it’s important to hire an attorney so we can help force the issue for them to bill your health insurance. VERONICA: Now, Lynn, you mentioned something a couple of times that I really want to delve into that. You said that folks are like, why are you billing my health insurance?
19:11	VERONICA: I didn’t do anything. LYNN: Right. Again, they think this is not just. Somebody else hurt me. They should pay for my bills. And they don’t even understand they might not even have the insurance coverage to pay. They are also kind of led astray by the hospital when they come in in the ER because they… first question, was this a car accident? Yes. Second question is, don’t worry. We don’t need your health insurance. We’ll just, you know, bill the at fault party. And they let it go.
19:41	LYNN: But you cannot let it go. That’s not true. That’s not the fact. So it’s very, very important. It may not be fair, but your medical bills are yours and you need to protect yourself because it will come back to bite you and not the person that hurt you. RICHARD: And also, it’s important to get your health insurance involved early on because there’s oftentimes a limited time frame in which your health insurance can be billed for the incident. VERONICA: Oh, really? I don’t know that. LYNN: Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Sometimes it’s 60 days. Yeah.
20:11	RICHARD: So you want to get out in front of this as quickly as possible. VERONICA: So that’s why you’re telling me I’m supposed to be calling you and just like… LYNN: Because the health insurance will go wasn’t timely filing. They didn’t file timely, so we don’t have to pay the bill. VERONICA: No way. LYNN: Yeah. VERONICA: It’s my insurance and I’m paying on it monthly you’re telling me they don’t have to if I don’t tell them in enough time. RICHARD: Yes, correct. VERONICA: Unbelievable. RICHARD: So there are times when we have to backdoor bill the health insurance.
20:37	RICHARD: We get the bill from the hospital and we submit that to the health insurance provider so they can’t later say they weren’t timely noticed. So we’ve given them notice. We’ve given them the bill. And then the hospitals don’t like it, but we’re here to protect the interests of our clients. VERONICA: What if I’m unconscious? We talked about head injuries earlier. I mean, I’m waking up … LYNN: As soon as you are conscious, get an attorney. Number one, because you were obviously badly injured. And the attorney is going to say, one of our first intake question is, do you have health insurance?
21:08	LYNN: What kind? I need a copy of the front and back of your health insurance card so I have all the information so I can put them on notice – the hospital – and try to make them bill your health insurance. VERONICA: I would imagine that both of you have had clients who are really balking when it’s time to write the check or send in the payment. After they’ve been hurt. Someone else’s negligence. RICHARD: Right. Well, ideally, we’re going to get money from the at fault insurance company to pay at the end of the case.
21:41	RICHARD: So you don’t necessarily have to pay your hospital bill immediately, but it is very important to have your health insurance bill. Nowadays with these large deductibles, there are times where the health insurance provider doesn’t make any payments at all, but the hospital has to make the required adjustments on the account. So the client ends up paying the net amount that the health insurance would have paid, had they already met their deductible. So if it’s a $10,000 bill and the hospital is required to write off, let’s say, $5000, because it’s not reasonable and customary.
22:14	RICHARD: Well, that’s what the client ends up paying and that balance of 5000 as opposed to the original balance of 10,000. And again, we’re getting money from the at fault company to pay these bills. VERONICA: But in the interim, the bills are coming to me. I’m the one getting maybe a collections letter. I’m like, uh uh, I’m not paying this. LYNN: That’s right, but that’s why people, you know… the attorney needs… they need to listen to the attorney. You are responsible for your medical bills. If you want to save your credit, don’t ignore it. call them, make a payment plan.
22:43	LYNN: If they’re turning over some other bills to, you know, credit or whatever. So that you’re protecting yourself and your credit and, you know, for your own good. VERONICA: So I said, let me clear something up and forgive me if this is too simple a question. We’re talking about hospital liens. But that’s because the bills are coming from the hospital. RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: Right? RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: Are there other kinds of liens? RICHARD: Absolutely. VERONICA: Okay. RICHARD: Yes. Medical doctors in Georgia can also file a lien per the lien statute.
23:14	RICHARD: And they have to do so within 90 days of the first treatment. Not the last. Hospitals have to bill within 75 days upon discharge. Medical doctors, and other entities that come under the statute have 90 days from the first date of service. VERONICA: So they can come from any place where I get treatment or… LYNN: No. VERONICA: Not necessarily? LYNN: If it’s outlined in the statute, and I think it says, there’s hospitals, there’s physicians, there’s burn centers, doctor’s offices.
23:49	VERONICA: So just specific kinds of providers. LYNN: Yeah. But that’s… VERONICA: But everybody’s attaching to this settlement, basically. LYNN: Well, that’s another thing about the statute as well. The hospital or whoever files the lien has to file it per the statute and it’s very picky about giving the notice, how you mail it, certified mail, or how it’s given to the person. So if they don’t perfect the lien is what it’s called, correctly, you can argue it’s an invalid lien and you don’t have to pay it.
24:19	LYNN: Or if they didn’t do it in the right time frame or too late, I think Richard’s dealing with someone right now. RICHARD: In fact, just yesterday I received a notice of a hospital lien for a minor. And the accident took place over a year ago. And they’re just filing it now. It’s well beyond the 75 days that they had to file. LYNN: And the statute of limitations is one year. VERONICA: That’s in Georgia, the statute of limitations. LYNN: We’re talking Georgia. VERONICA: So it really could literally this sounds so complex and it literally can vary state to state to state.
24:50	LYNN: Yes, it does. You need an attorney. VERONICA: You’ve seen it. If I was that kid’s family, his mom or her mom. And I’m getting this bill. I’m thinking, okay, well, sometimes it takes a long time to get to me. Let me get out the checkbook. Let me see what I can do. RICHARD: Well, the first thing you should do is call your attorney. And we could put them to ease on that. We are still negotiating on this particular claim. And ultimately, you do want to pay your bills.
25:21	RICHARD: And you don’t want things, perhaps lingering on your credit, particularly for a minor. You don’t want your child to grow older and once they, you know, are looking to buy a house or a car and here’s some lien that shows up on the credit report from 20 years ago and they were 5 years old. So it is good to pay. And we are going to get money to pay your bills if the insured… if the responsible party has insurance. Or if you have uninsured motorist coverage. VERONICA: Lynn was talking earlier about this empathy that she feels. You get a lot of clients or you know client from time to time who just digs in their heels and is like, I’m not giving them anything.
25:53	VERONICA: They can wait. LYNN: Yes, but again, you just really have to explain it to them. The purpose of why you’re doing what you’re doing and it’s to their benefit. The other thing is I’ve literally spent a lot of time on closed cases where the client – where we have paid the lien, but they call me back because they were two years later trying to buy a house. And they never filed satisfaction of lien in the court, which they’re required to do. So this lien is there, and they couldn’t get the loan, even though it was paid.
26:22	LYNN: And even though we sent settlement documents with the check showing it was paid. So I had to go back to the facility and threaten them. You need to file this and file it now that it’s satisfied and been satisfied because you’re causing them damage and harm and you know we can come after you for that. VERONICA: Lynn walker calling folks on the carpet. Okay. RICHARD: Now we do want to emphasize the possibility of a hospital or a doctor lien should not discourage you from getting the medical treatment that you need and deserve.
26:52	VERONICA: Oh yeah. Absolutely. RICHARD: And in fact, for example, in Georgia, the law requires the entities file in the lien to have specific language that the lien is not evidence of the injured patient’s failure to pay a debt. VERONICA: Okay, so again, very specific language. I need somebody helping navigate me through this. All right, so when we do that… LYNN: that’s part of perfecting the lien. They have to have this language. They have to do it within a certain number of days. They have to, you know, get it to you a certain way.
27:22	LYNN: So if none of that is done, the lien is not perfected. RICHARD: Yes, and it has to say… LYNN: Yes. It’s invalid. RICHARD: It is not a lien against the injured patient or other property or assets of the injured patient. Again, this is a Georgia law. VERONICA: All right, so let me ask you about the different ways, I guess, that we’re talking about payment, you know, from private insurance, job health insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, do they file liens against the settlement too? Can they do that? RICHARD: Yes, absolutely.
27:52	LYNN: Yes. RICHARD: Yes. But the good thing about Medicaid and Medicare is they almost always pay their steep discount. So even when you reimburse Medicaid or Medicare from your insurance proceeds, that discount is getting passed on to you. And also, as an added benefit Medicare reduces the lien by the percentage of attorney fees. VERONICA: What about a workers comp case? Do you have to pay back workers comp? Oh, land groaned at that.
28:21	LYNN: Well, okay, we’re not workers comp attorneys, and that is a whole other section of law. But you can argue they were not made whole under Georgia law. RICHARD: Right, if there’s another court settlement, yes. LYNN: Yeah. VERONICA: Yeah. That’s what I was talking about. If there’s a… LYNN: If there’s a jury verdict… VERONICA: …settlement against the third party, LYNN: that was… RICHARD: Then you’d have to pay back the percentage of the attorney… The lien is reduced by the percentage of attorney fees if the case goes to trial and the verdict is returned.
28:51	VERONICA: That isn’t… This is so complex, you guys. But somehow, I feel like I’m keeping up with all of it along the way. You… do you… do you have cases that make you really proud when you look back on how devastating these bills can be? An instance that really made you feel like this is why I’m doing this? RICHARD: The cases that I feel proudest is when the client is reluctant to treat because they’re concerned about the bills and they do treat, and they do get better. Because ultimately you cannot put a price tag on your health.
29:22	RICHARD: As I’ve mentioned before. VERONICA: Yeah, you have. That really stayed with me, Richard. Lynn? LYNN: I think I feel really good that I know that I have dotted every I crossed every T and there will be nothing coming back to bite my client later on. And again, like the person that called me trying to buy the house, I always tell them, if you hear anything, call me. I don’t care if the case is closed. I’m your attorney for this, and we will fight for you and take care of it because there’s arguments you weren’t made whole or whatever.
29:54	VERONICA: So the arguments are always there. Lynn walker and Richard Warner, the Montlick closing argument is coming up. Stay with us. You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick. If you want to listen to our radio show live, you can hear it every Sunday, 8 a.m. on 95.5 WSB. VERONICA: Welcome back to Lawyers in the House with Montlick.
30:23	VERONICA: I’m your host, Veronica Waters here with Montlick injury attorneys Richard Warner and Lynn walker talking about hospital liens and you know you’ve been waiting for it all hour long. So here we are to give it to you the Montlick closing argument Lynn and Richard the floor is yours. RICHARD: Well let me say that liens are not always bad. Liens can work in your favor. For example, when you go to a chiropractor, they will agree to wait until your case is over before they expect payment if you voluntarily sign a lien agreeing to pay them from the proceeds at the end of your case.
30:57	RICHARD: And chiropractic care is a great way of getting active care modalities to help the body heal itself, so you heal faster and better than just taking pain medication. VERONICA: That’s a pretty interesting nugget because lien sounds very scary to me. RICHARD: Yes. But no, not always scary. VERONICA: Not always scary. LYNN: Yeah. Right. If you have no health insurance, you definitely need to hire an attorney because they won’t treat you on a lien unless there is an attorney involved because they know that way, the agreement… the attorney is going to pay them back and negotiate the lien down with them.
31:28	LYNN: So that you can get treatment. So you can get better. VERONICA: So for your Montlick closing argument, let’s talk about how folks can protect themselves. How about that? RICHARD: Well, you protect yourself by calling an attorney, talking to an attorney and ultimately hired an attorney. VERONICA: Attorney. RICHARD: Yes. VERONICA: Attorney! LYNN: And you know, give them your health insurance. Give them your health insurance. And there is a lot. We haven’t gotten into. There’s a lot of other liens. There can be health insurance lanes. There’s, you know, there’s just a lot of other liens.
31:59	LYNN: And if you don’t have an attorney that will check into all of that and make sure it’s all taken care of. You could get your settlement and next thing you know you’re getting a notice from your health insurance that says, thank you very much. You owe me $20,000 because I paid for your medical treatment. And there goes your settlement if you did not have an attorney. VERONICA: You’re waiting for the peace of mind of the settlement to come and then suddenly it’s snatched away from you. LYNN: And something you didn’t even know is going to come and bite you. VERONICA: Little point. Do I need to just have my health insurance card with me at all times?
32:29	VERONICA: I mean, I kind of do anyway, but… LYNN: Yes. RICHARD: Yes. And if you don’t obtain it quickly, have a family member bring it to you in the hospital. And if not, you know, send it to them by a fax or email every next day or as soon as you can. LYNN: Call the billing office the next day, whatever. VERONICA: Call the billing office? LYNN: Yes, we tell them. Here’s my health insurance. I didn’t give it to you at the time. Please, here’s my health insurance information. Give it to them. VERONICA: And again, I just want to make sure they have to bill my health insurance if I tell them, bill my health insurance. RICHARD: That’s our position. They sometimes…
32:59	LYNN: That’s another argument. RICHARD: They take a contrary position. VERONICA: Look at me, I’m becoming a lawyer already. LYNN: That’s another reason you need an attorney. Okay, let’s just put it that way. VERONICA: A real one. Not me. Okay. Thank you so much to Lynn Walker and Richard Warner, Montlick injury attorneys, talking about hospital leads with us in the house today. And we’re talking about hospital lean on me when I’m not strong. You need some good lawyers to help you carry on when it’s that time. RICHARD: You can lean on us. LYNN: Lean on us. We’ll be your friend.
33:29	VERONICA: I love it. Thank you so much. And this is your host Veronica Waters bidding you adieu until next time. You’re listening to our podcast, Lawyers in the House with Montlick. Catch us live every Sunday, 8 a.m. on 95.5 WSB.

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